Office Relationships

Lately, I've been watching The Office on Netflix, and am totally entranced by the awkward chemistry that is Jim and Pam. For those that have never seen the show, Jim and Pam are two co-workers at the fictional company Dunder Mifflin who start out crushing on each other and eventually end up together throughout the seasons. I won't give away too much detail in case any of you haven't watched this amazing series yet. I may be a bit biased since John Krasinski (Jim) is one of my celebrity crushes..

Office relationships are really not an issue in my office since the majority of the staff is married, in a relationship outside of the office, or separated by about a 20 year age gap, but I have been wondering what is considered office appropriate in larger companies.

So here's where I turn to you, post grads! Are you allowed to date co-workers at your job? Is it the norm in your office, or frowned upon? Have you ever been in an office relationship? Fill me in!

The Theory of Twice Removed

I have a theory about dating. First off, I hate most aspects of it with a passion. I hate awkwardness, I hate the Q&A part of getting to know someone else, I hate the pressure associated with dating a new person. This is how my theory came into being.

There are several ways to meet someone new, but most of them suck. If you meet someone at a bar I can almost guarantee that they will not be in your life more than 3 weeks. You can try online dating, but ever since the Craigslist killer, this creeps me out. You can ask your friends to set you up, but if that goes badly then all the awkwardness increases times a thousand.

My solution: The Theory of Twice Removed. I'll explain. The best people to date are friends of friends of friends.

- If you start dating someone you are friends with shit will likely hit the fan. It could ruin a friendship, your current friends will feel the need to take sides if it ends badly, etc., etc.

- If you start dating a friend of a friend they are still too close in proximity of your main friend group to avoid them. You probably met at a party,

but they will also be at every party after this one. They are pretty well vetted by someone who's judgement you kind of trust, but if it ends badly even more people will feel awkward. Do you really want to be asked why it didn't work while the person is drinking a beer in the other room?

- If you start dating a friend of a friend of a friend you are in a perfect situation. Example: Your friend's, roommate's best friend. They are far enough removed from your circle of friends that you will probably not awkwardly run into them at a party, but close enough that if you are interested it will be simple to get them there. No one's feelings will get hurt if it doesn't work out, except maybe theirs.

The last 3 people I dated fit my theory. None of them worked out, sadly enough, but it doesn't matter because I never really have to see them again. On the bright side, if they do happen to be a mutual friend's party, we can still hook up. It's a great position to be in.

The only issue I have encountered with my Theory, is that everyone tends to hang out with the same people. At some point, the pool of FoFoF will run out. But I think I am willing to take my chances until then.

Single Girl Problems

We have not been writing many posts related to relationships in Post Grad lately, and my older post about being Post Grad and Single is still getting a lot of traffic (thanks all!) so I figured it was about time to add another relationship post.

Now, I'd like to start off by saying that I love being single. I love the freedom and independence, not having to answer to anyone else or plan around anyone else's schedule. I love the possibilities. You never really know when you will meet the next man worthy of a date, so you look at every single one you pass and wonder if something will change him from a stranger to a lover.

That said, being Single also has it's drawbacks. The most prevalent problems I am facing are below:

1. No one else is around to kill bugs/mice but me. And I will if I have to, but it is certainly nice to have a man around to be all tough and manly and just take care of it.
2. I have no t-shirts to steal... I mean wear. For some reason mens' t-shirts are just SO much more comfy.
3. I get self conscious about sex. Not the act itself, trust me that's fine, but the potential numbers I'm accumulating while single. There's a movie that just came out with Anna Farris called "What's your Number?" where she finds her exes in order to avoid raising her number. Yup, done that.
4. For some reason men like to be the one driving, which is fine by me. Especially in this city, driving is stressful. But alas, while single I have to drive myself around.

Now if those four things could be solved, AND I could stay single, I think I'd be a happy camper.

Most Ridiculous Pickup Lines

Men have interesting ways of trying to get in my pants. Personally I find pick up lines to be more hilarious than effective, but they still keep trying. I guess pick up lines are just part of dating as a Post Grad. Single men our age, especially after they have a few drinks in them, think they might actually work.

Well Post Grad males, they don't. I promise. Not once have I ever slept with someone who used a pickup line on me. I did laugh though. And I'd like to share just a few of the the funniest.

"My d*** is so jealous of my mouth right now. I think you should make things even."

"Let's role play True Blood. You be Sookie and we can f*** fangbanger style."

"I'll give you $50 if I can squeeze your a**. $100 if I can see it."

Those are my top three. Have any of you ever used or received a ridiculous pick up line?

Wedding Bells Are Ringing

It seems like everyone is getting engaged and married this year. And by everyone I mean mostly people I'm friends with on Facebook. My news feed has been overwhelmed with engagement and wedding photos of peers. They make the announcements and ask for advice on dresses and venues. And all I can think is, why?

We are so young. In the news and all the polls it shows that our generation is waiting longer to marry so they can focus on a career. Yet every week I'm seeing another person tying the knot. Some are even younger than I am.

I would like to set the record straight that I am not against marriage as a whole, I just think the current way of doing it is foolish. The institution of marriage how it stands now is a life-long contract. Not a commitment or a promise like the ceremony wants you to think, it is a legally binding contract. And just like any contract you want to get out of, it costs a lot of money and needs to be negotiated.

Think of any other contract you would ever agree to. A lease on a house, a loan, a cell phone plan. How long do they last? A year, 2 years, or until you pay it off. Not forever. Things change. We change. Would you ever sign a lease on a house for the rest of your life with no option to renegotiate and an absurd cost to break it? And I do not mean buying a house. That is different. You have free reign to change the house and re-sell if you buy. A lease does not give you that option.

I could never in good faith sign a contract that would last forever because I have no idea how anything will be down the road. People change just as much as circumstances and that isn't conducive to being legally bound to someone for the rest of your life.

Some people claim that my point of view on marriage is cynical, that I have no sense of romance and don't understand love. Some also claim that it is a religious sacrament and that I should respect that. I beg to differ. My point of view is realistic. People grow out of love just as often as they fall into it. I think the institution of marriage needs to be modernized just like everything else. Pre-nuptial agreements have become normal in society, why can't we make them a standard?

I have thought a lot about marriage lately because of so many statuses on my news feed that relate to them. I think if I ever do decide to marry, there will need to be a pre-nuptual agreement that stipulates a complete re-negotiation of terms after 5 years, including but not limited to dissolution of marriage. It is nice to think that you will always love the same person, but it's not realistic anymore. It was easy when we only lived to be 35 but now our life spans have doubled. I don't disrespect the sanctity of marriage at all, I just think it needs to adapt to the world we live in.

Congrats to all those getting married and engaged, I hope you stay in love.

Post Grad Dating Rituals

For many college students, dating centers around house parties, bars, texting, library study dates, and the occasional next-day brunch. In my experience, college dating is generally low key and very low pressure. After all, it's tough balancing a boyfriend with the ten page papers, reality tv marathons, friend time, and studying we have to attend to!

When we graduate, things change. All of a sudden your two friends that dated throughout college are engaged, others are moving in together, and the couple that you swore would make it are ending things because they're moving to different cities. The single ones? Well they have to navigate a whole new dating scene that can range from "grabbing drinks" after work, to dinner dates at nicer restaurants that actually close before 2 am.

Recently, my boyfriend showed me this article by John Ross who gives advice to a young guy who is about to take a girl he really likes out on a first date. To me, the tips Ross gives seem to cater more towards a young man who isn't involved in the college scene so much anymore.. so I'm curious to know if you all think these techniques might work in the post grad dating scene. The first time I read the article, I was completely offended. The second time, I was intrigued.

Ladies- Have you ever had a guy act this way towards you? Did his actions reel you in or push you away?

Guys- Have you ever treated a woman this way? Did she become your girlfriend, or did you end up with a burning red hand print across your cheek?

Do you think any of Ross's rules have a place in the post grad dating scene? Please check out the article and comment with your opinion- I'd love to know your thoughts.

(the article takes a few seconds to load, so wait it out!)

I Suck At Dating

If you know me at all you know my attention span tends to be on par with that of a 6 year old. I love shiny things, get distracted by a song, and always need to be doing something. In simple terms, I get bored easily.

Unfortunately this often carries into my dating life. I tend to find a guy I may like, exchange numbers, go on a few dates, then get bored. That is my M.O. Has been forever.

It's not like I even dislike the guy I happen to be dating at the time. That would at least give me a good reason to stop dating him. Sometimes I even know that I do like him. But liking a guy doesn't mean I will continue dating him. There is so much more to it than that.

I would like to add that I am not bored on the dates themselves. Conversation, chemistry, all of that is great on the first 1-4 dates I go on with someone. I often find several common interests, things we both want to try. On the dates, all signs point to go. Then my desire to continue dating that person just dissipates.

This is not a common issue you see on dating and relationship blogs or magazines. Usually they list reasons a woman is bad at dating that include things like being too bitter or not putting yourself out there or trying to date the wrong men. I don't relate to those (although the types of men I date are questionable at times, sometimes you need to experience Mr. Wrong before getting to Mr. Right.).

Now I've thought of a few things that can explain this phenomena in my dating career.

1. I'm really low maintenance. When you first start dating someone you tend to go out a lot. That is, after all, what a date usually is. But I like to cook more often than eat out. And I prefer being on my couch in sweats than dressing up for dinner. Going out actually gets me bored. And most men assume a girl wants to be wined and dined all the time. I don't.
2. Along those same lines, I like casual things. Just hanging out at home with the tv on or playing video games or grabbing a sandwich. If I could hang out at home with a guy instead of go to dinner and it was still awesome, that is a good sign. I like to try new things, but the person needs to fit into my every day life too.
3. Where I meet the guy matters. Friends of friends are great because you often meet in a casual environment where you are just hanging out. No pressure. No expectations. That is what I like. I have enough pressure and expectations at work all week, I don't want to feel that way while dating. If I do, I stop paying attention.

I feel bad when I hit my boredom plateau with someone. I usually know it's coming, even if the dates are going well. It also sucks, because even the potential of sex and romance makes life so much better. When I get bored the potential goes away. Until of course I find a new guy to get bored with.

I'm sorry to all the men out there who have experienced this and I wish I had a better explanation to give you. Unfortunately I do not. On the bright side, though, if we've made it past 4 dates or 4 weeks, whichever comes first, and I'm not bored, it looks promising for you.

Standing Still

This weekend I said goodbye to my boyfriend who will be in Cincinnati for two months for an internship. I had this weird sensation as I was watching him drive away and realized that for the first time in years, I was the one staying behind while someone else said goodbye.

In college we are always the ones saying goodbye. We get to drive away, or hop on a plane or bus, and head back to school. While we are sad to leave our families and old friends behind, it's generally softened by the fact that tons of new experiences are just around the corner for us.

This weekend, I felt what it's like to be the one left behind, and I can tell these next months will really be a growing experience. Nothing will be changing in my life (much) in the next two months while he's away. I'll be going about my same 9-5 routine, same workout schedule, seeing friends etc, etc. I have to say, I don't really mind that things are slowing down for me right now. It's actually kind of relaxing.

I've realized it's a matter of taking turns, you can't always be the one on the move. Sometimes you've got to be the one that stands still, and for right now, I'm okay with that.

Post Grad and In a Relationship

Shikole and I have written articles about relationships before on this blog, but they've always been in a non personal sense. We've given you tips for date nights, ideas on how to meet guys once out of college, and some insight into why relationships are different after graduation. But what about our OWN experiences? Shikole shares some of hers in the previous article, and here are some of mine.

I am not jaded when it comes to relationships. Aside from one or two complete jerks, my romantic life has consisted of a few guys that actually cared about me. I feel very lucky for this fact, but it was never an easy road to find someone I was compatible with. I don't date just for the fun of it, believe me, I've tried. If I don't want to be with a guy romantically 100%, then we are just friends. I've found (for me) that there is no use in dating and complicating things unless I really want to pursue a strong connection.

I am currently in a relationship that has lasted for almost one year, and it's definitely my most mature relationship so far. We started dating when I was still in college. He had just graduated and was working a job that made it so easy for us to spend time together... then I graduated and got a job.

All of a sudden, those random weekday visits were non existent. He was working nights and weekends, I was working days. I kept telling myself that things would change soon and become easier. But due to a long change of career plans, they haven't, and now he is preparing to leave for a two month long internship opportunity.

Do you want to know honestly what my first thoughts were about this change of plans? I thought first about myself. I thought, "he is going to miss our one year anniversary, my birthday, my moving day!!" In my mind, I was furious. I moved to Rochester partly because I wanted to further my relationship with him, and here he was leaving me. After months of being in a relationship with schedules that only overlap once in a while, and hoping that things would get better soon, he is now going to leave for months, and is showing no remorse at all.

After brooding for a while, I stepped back a little bit and thought about things. The situation he put himself in wasn't about me at all, yet most of my concerns began with the word "my" or "me". It was about him, and furthering his career goals. This is the time in our lives when we need to do things like this for ourselves...before we have family and children and mortgages. Instead of being bitter about the "me" related things we'll miss, I just have to keep moving ahead.

I've come to the conclusion that my relationship is not going to become simpler. In the post grad world, relationships just aren't easy. Much like friendships, they require consistent mutual effort and support, or else they crumble.

My boyfriend and I are still trying. We have a lot of fun together, and genuinely enjoy being with each other. The thought of ending things over a career tears me up inside. Although we've hit a few bumps along the way, I know we'll continue to try and make things work.


I'm tired of sugarcoating things on this website about my fantasy post grad love life. I'm sick of giving bulleted lists of relationship advice. Our blog is called The Real Post Grad after all.

I've only got one tip for you in this post. If you value your post grad relationship, but things aren't easy, sometimes you just have to suck it up. Keep moving forward, keep being there for each other as much as possible, and keep looking towards the future. In one way or another, things will work themselves out.

So readers, welcome to my real post grad relationship.

Let's Get It On

By Shikole Struber

While I recognize this may be a taboo topic for some, in reality, sex is a part of life. It does not need to be shied away from and should certainly be addressed here because it is a part of life for many post grads.

When I finally get off work an hour and half after I'm supposed to there are only two things I want: a beer and some great sex to relieve the stress the day produced. But in post grad life it becomes more difficult to get it on as often as we'd like, for people both in a relationship and those who are single.

The schedules of people in a relationship don't always match up to allow for nightly romps. One works nights or one doesn't get home until after dinner time or you live too far from each other to realistically be able to see each other during the week. Or both partners can be too tired after work to exert the energy for sex. Bottom line is that the lifestyle post grad has forced on us is not always conducive to mind blowing action in the bedroom.

And if you're single, let me tell you, you either need a very reliable booty call buddy or you're screwed, and not in the way you'd like. It's not easy to just "find" someone. Dating takes a lot of work. And sometimes you just want to get laid.

Sex is good for us after all. It has been proven to:

• Reduce Stress
• Release endorphins (making us happier)
• Increase our immune system function

Less stress, less sick, and more happy. More benefits can be found here.  I think all those things would help us in post grad life!

Is it possible to have a fulfilling sex life post grad? (Some) Married couples seem to have accomplished this. Maybe it just takes time to adjust. I was speaking to a woman a couple weeks ago who informed me that it took her and her body about three years to adjust to schedules and attention span expected in the working world. I really hope she is wrong because I don't think I can last three years being exhausted every day, however the adjustment aspect seems legit.

Rememeber that sex can make you healthier, and should not be ignored as a topic because it is taboo. Good luck post grads. I hope your immune systems get boosted.

Flowchart: What Kind Of Roommate Are You? | The Frisky

Roommates are not just for those in college. Finding a living situation that you can handle post grad is even more difficult. Everyone seems to be at a different place in their life. Use this flow chart to grasp what kinf of roommate you are, and the kind you want.

Flowchart: What Kind Of Roommate Are You? | The Frisky.

Post Grad Weekend Trips Home

By Allison Sass

In college, we had breaks planned for us every month or so that would give us a chance to go home to or enjoy an extra long weekend at school with no homework. In post grad life, you have limited paid vacation time (at least at first!) and must focus all of your traveling into the weekend timeframe.

I just traveled home for labor day weekend, my first trip home since I started my job in July, and have a few tips for post grads that are now forced to plan their own weekend getaways.

1. Make sure you have lots of water, caffeine, and snacks on hand if you plan on driving home right after your workday on Friday. I thought this would be no problem for me, but about 3 hours into my 5 hour drive home, I was thankful I caved in and drank that energy drink.

2. Watch the weather! If you are driving home on a Friday night and the weather forecast calls for torrential rain the entire evening, consider waking up early the next day and leaving then instead.  Driving in the rain is no fun, but driving in the dark in intense rain is just plain dangerous.

3. Plan ahead! Make plans for the time you will spend at home. Since you'll only be there for about 48 hours, you'll want to pack as much fun into your weekend trip home as possible. Don't waste time there just sitting around and figuring out what to do.

4. Leave your work at work. As someone who stresses about work while outside of the office, I know that it's especially important to leave you work behind when traveling home for the weekend, especially if you have a long drive! Make the most of your time at home. Don't worry, your work will be there waiting for you after the weekend!

It's Really Over

By Shikole Struber

I'm beginning to realize that graduating is a lot like a break up. At first it doesn't sink in that you're done. It's just summer, like any other summer. You've been apart for many summers before this one. But then you get your diploma in the mail, and it's like college is giving you back all your stuff. It's really exciting to see what was sent to you, after you waited for so long to receive it, but then you remember all the good times you had and almost want to give it back.

Then there's the rebound. You need it quickly to take you mind off of things and get on with your life. It's the complete opposite of everything you had previously. You aren't sure how it happened and you don't know how long it's going to last. The first job after grad, whether it be at a retail store, or a desk, or on the hill, is still a rebound job. You just got out of a 4 year (at least) relationship and now you need a replacement.

And through all of this you miss it. Break ups are hard. This one is no exception. And it's time you realize that it's really over. But keep your chin up, your next big life adventure is just around the corner.

Online Dating

By Allison Sass

"Recent studies show that 1 in 5 relationships begin online". You've probably heard this statement blaring from your television during a match.com commercial and thought "not my relationships!!". I know I did before last November.

To me, online dating only represented negative things. 1. it meant that the people who joined these sites were clearly desperate. 2. it inevitably included creepy moustached men who lied about their age and had hidden dangerous agendas. And.. 3. online dating just seemed so impersonal. People judge you based on a picture and a paragraph about yourself... need I say more.

I remained on my "too good for online matchmaking" horse until last November when a few friends joined Okcupid.com just for fun. At first, I was completely against the idea, and then in a sudden revelation thought "why not just try it?".

I signed myself up, and you know what? I realized that on top of all of my apprehensions, having an online dating profile is actually pretty entertaining. I didn't ever take my experience too seriously, but did end up meeting someone great who had never tried online dating before either. 7+ months later, and we are both very happy we chose to step out of our comfort zones. :)

For post grads who are new to an area and looking to get out and meet some new people, or who are searching for a special someone (it's okay to admit that readers!!)- I urge you to at least try online dating before you knock it. Some popular sites include okcupid.com, match.com, eharmony.com, and zoosk.com- but there are many more, google it.

Of course, be sure to use caution when meeting anyone in person that you've been talking to online. Don't meet for the first time in a private place, and take caution when getting into cars with strangers. Use the same precautions you might use if you met a potential mate at a bar or party. Get to know this person before trusting them.

But also remember to have fun! Meeting new people is always an experience. If you are looked down on by friends or family, brush it off and simply remind them that with a closed-off judgemental  attitude, they could be missing out on something great.

How Many Choices are Too Many?

By Shikole Struber

We all have that friend who is always indecisive. But what if if having too many choices really is bad for us?

We encountered this when applying to college. There are so many it's hard to choose. And even after we chose which to apply to, we then had to choose which one to GO to.

Now that college is over we are faced again with a plethora of choices that may be hindering us in life.

• Grad School. Should you go? To which one? For what?


• A mate. It's natural to wonder if there's someone better, but what about when that curiousity prevents you from choosing just one? The fear of settling down because there MIGHT be someone better.


• A place to live. Should you try a new part of town? A different town/city/state/country altogether? If you aren't tied to a certain place, how do you choose where to go next?


• A Job. There are so many you can apply to. What do you relly want to be now that you're a grown up?

There have been studies done that show too much choice is detrimental. Narrow your options. And try not to think about the "what if" factor. Instead try the "what is" factor.

When Dating Becomes a Chore

By Shikole Struber

Not everyone is in a relationship, and now that you have a job you no longer have time to mingle. You get done working at 5 or 6pm and unless you go straight to the bar you often miss happy hour. You are recently more interested in chill nights as opposed to the crazy ones you had in college. You have no energy left by Friday night and a movie sounds so much better than taking 12 shots of tequila and waking up with a massive hangover.

But how do you meet new people who are worth your time? You've tried meeting potential mates at bars, but that has backfired more times than you can count. Sure it might work for the night. But nights quickly turn into mornings when you can see things much clearer.

Friends of friends are a gold mine. If you have a mutual friend there must be something in common. It also means that the person has been at least partially vetted. They aren't a complete stranger.

Other places to meet someone who is date worthy and not just night worthy:

• Cooking classes. Sadly they cost money, but you'll meet someone who at least is willing to try something new and has a hobby.


• Book clubs. You'll meet someone who has similar interests and you will have a built-in conversation starter.


• Wine tasting. Classier than a bar but still involves alcohol.


• Dog parks. If you like dogs this is a great place to meet people. It's outside, it's semi-active.


• An exercise class. If you still think someone is hot after a workout maybe it's meant to be.

Good luck post grad singles!

Lonely Tylenol

[caption id="attachment_129" align="alignleft" width="117" caption="By Dave Coverly"][/caption]

By Shikole Struber

Not only is this a palindrome, but it reflects how you feel after graduation when you realize most of your friends have moved back home thanks to the economy. Almost everyone's lease was up in May. And now, not only are they leaving, but you are expected to help them pack up and go. Your list of friends to call up to join you for a drink has been shrunk to a mere third of the size it was a couple weeks ago. No one is available to go get dinner. You can't find someone willing to sit through the newest installment of your favorite movie series. There's not even anyone to eat all of the food you bake when procrastinating doing laundry.

Should you make new friends? Make due with the ones who stayed in town? Jump on the bandwagon and move home as well?

I decided to make due with the ones that stayed, and try to get the ones that left me back to visit as often as possible. Visits can be amazing. A break from the redundancy of working full time, or the aggrivation of the job hunt.

What approach would you take?

Post Grad Date Nights

By Allison Sass

When college relationships continue past graduation, you and your boyfriend/girlfriend will likely find that your relationship dynamic changes greatly. It's no longer possible to spend the day hanging in the dorm, "studying" together, or watching movie marathons until 2 am on a Wednesday. Now that you have a full time job, or are full time on the job hunt, time spent with your significant other is more valuable and limited than ever.

Although the term often seems reserved for middle aged couples who spend one night away from their children a week, "date night" is a great way to ensure that you and your special someone have time for each other. Here are some date night ideas that won't break the bank!

Share Some Appetizers- Sharing cuts down on costs and means you can both sample a few things from the menu!

Rest By The Water- Water is relaxing. Find some near your home (lake, pond, river, ocean), spread out a blanket, and rest together. Bonus points if you watch the sunset.

Cook Together- We all need to eat, right? Tryout a new recipe together or bake something sweet. Cake mix and icing cost under five dollars combined.

Massage- Hand massage, face massage, shoulder massage. Ease out each others tension after a long day. Try out this great muscle mend cream from Burts Bees and you will feel stress-free in no time!